Posts by Juan Viejo2

5

Wealth of Documents at Royal Commission Site

by StayedAliveAfter75 in

although i will continue to provide those of you who have subscribed to my distribution list with pertinent documents as they become available, there is a wealth of material just sitting there for you to pick over if you will just take the time and clear some space on your computer.

i suggest that you go to costco, amazon.com, or a local office supply store and pick up a couple of usb plugin storage drives.

i just bought a set of two 128gb 3.0 sandisk dongles for $19 usd at costco.

Juan Viejo2

Good one, wifibandit! How cool is that?!!

JV

25

Did you know that President Jimmy Carter used to be a Jehovah's Witness?

by AndersonsInfo in

jw
friends

http://www.christianpost.com/news/jimmy-carter-says-jesus-would-not-support-abortion-revealing-only-conflict-between-his-politics-and-christian-faith-141881/.

carter said that as a young man he used to be a jehovah's witness before he was a baptist christian.. .

"it's hard to grow up with such a foundational system and just let it go.

Juan Viejo2

According to several sources, however, Eisenhower did take the oath of office as President on a Bible given to him by his mother that was printed by the Watchtower Society.

JV

24

Who oversees the money for the WT?

by John Aquila in

when the wt sells property for a billion dollars profit, who decides what that money is going to be used for?.

when all the money comes in from all the kingdom halls bank accounts worldwide, did all that money go into one big account and who has authority to spend it and cut some checks to whoever?

when all the monthly donations come in to the watchtower headquarters, who decides distribution, and to who?

Juan Viejo2

After the Menlo Park federal lawsuit / debacle, it was made pretty clear that all Kingdom Halls, including those bought and paid for by members of local congregations (as was typical prior to 1990), now belong to the Watchtower (Pennsylvania Corp, I believe). The elders are required to add a clause in their deeds and corporate paperwork, that upon dissolution of any congregation, the property and all buildings transfer to the WT. Nothing is retained or controlled locally.

So that explains why the WTB&TS has been merging congregations. Once everyone has moved into a new location and abandoned the old - the Watchtower takes it over and sells it - and keeps all the money. This has been the general track in the past ten years:

1. Kingdom Hall A built and paid for by local congregation in 1950-1970s.

2. Kingdom Hall B built and paid for by local congregation in 1960-1980.

3. Kingdom Hall C built and paid for by local congregation with some WT financing in 1980-2000.

4. 2005 - Kingdom Hall A undergoes a major refresh. 2008 - congregation relocated and merged with KH B.

5. 2008 - Kingdom Hall A sold to a commercial buyer, any remaining loans paid off. Net goes to WT HQ.

6. 2009 - New Assembly Hall and Kingdom Hall built in the area. All members of Kingdom Hall A/B moved to new location. Kingdom Hall B sold off and all proceeds go to the WT HQ.

7. 2011 - New quick-build Kingdom Hall built (D). A large number of former KH A and B members are reassigned to (D) leaving KH co-located with Assembly Hall underutilized. Relatively new KH C is abandoned and members are moved to KH at Assembly Hall location.

8. 2012 - KH C is sold and all funds go to WTBTS.

9. 2014 - New Kingdom Hall built (E). A majority of members of old KH C and some from surrounding communities are reassigned to KH E.

10. 2014 - KH and Assembly Hall site repurposed or sold. Proceeds go to WTBTS. Circuit assemblies held in rented convention facilities.

This has been the pattern all over North America over the past 15 years. The real estate crash of 2008, set some of these projects back until property values began to increase substantially in 2012.

This constant relocation and reassignment of members has created hardship for older JWs. Some who could call a cab or get a ride to the local KH, must now arrange transportation to towns and locations that are more distant and in busier neighborhoods. Many KHs now have up to 4 congregations (some foreign language groups) made up from the base of original fully packed KHs.

It must be hard for some JWs to have to jam into 80 seat KHs with growing membership, while others share a 120-seat Kingdom Hall with a moderate number of English speaking JWs and 2-4 smaller foreign language congregations spreading their meetings across the whole weekend and three nights a week.

What your rank and file JWs don't realize is that they are just pawns in a big Monopoly style real estate game being played by the WT Penn and WT NY. Similar situations exist in the UK. Some JWs have never moved their personal residence but have attended up to 5 or 6 different KH locations in the past 15 years.

JV

25

"Crisis of Conscience" and "In Search of Christian Freedom" in stock at Amazon.

by ScenicViewer in

- crisis of conscience (hardcover), $29.95 here.. - in search of christian freedom (hardcover), $29.95 here.. - in search of christian freedom (paperback), $29.95 here.. all sold by cynthia franz..

Juan Viejo2

Most of the ones now available are used. Even so, well worth the investment. I've never had a problem ordering used books from Amazon.com - doesn't show up, just complain. If the ad says good condition and it comes to you in pieces, just let Amazon know and they will fix it for you.

Funny story: My first copy was an original version. A few years later, Ray put out a new edition with some corrections and minor additions. The facts and tone of the book did not change at all, but just time for an update. So I ordered a new edition from Amazon (about $21-29) at the time. The one I got had an insert in it with a list of about 100 minor changes from the early version.

I go to a meetup with some recently out JWs. I took the old book and long with and old copy another famous book, "Apocalype Delayed." I was going to just give them away. The meetup group was mostly gay and newbie JWs that had recently left. Not a single request from any of them. Blew me away. Here I was giving away copies of probably the two most famous critical JW related books - and no one wanted them.

JV

60

BREAKING NEWS!!!

by DATA-DOG in

breaking news from co!!

according to a reliable source, the co in my area says that jws may have been hearing the phrase, "final push" being used.

what sage advice did this shepherd, duke, and "star" of revelation have to say?

Juan Viejo2

I am really beginning to believe that the Watchtower can make these pronouncements at every assembly knowing full well that most of the audience is napping, reading their emails, taking their kids to the bathroom, and hoping to get home in time to see Game of Thrones or Ray Donovan. Yes, they do awake and take notice when its time to "sing" along with the recorded song that no one can really understand or stay in tun with and then get into position for the quick exit as soon as the final prayer is mumbled and bumbled. No biggie - Jehovah heard that very same prayer a week ago at several other cities and will hear it again several more times that very day.

All in praise to Jehovah.. Sure He really appreciates the attention...

JV

59

A difficult yet necessary decision

by Brother Jeramy in

the past five weeks have been perhaps the most painful in my life as a witness.. some months ago a young man (i'd say in his late thirties or early forties) began attending meetings at my kingdom hall.

he had just moved to my area from another state.

he had disassociated himself from his home congregation many years back, when he was 20 years old and going through many of the typical trials and temptations most young men experience.. two of the elders met with him initially, and they later shared the details with the body of elders.

Juan Viejo2

One of the very best ways to leave is to move out of the area, preferably out of the circuit and district. Just say goodbye to everyone and go. Don't DA. Don't make a ruckus. Just go. They will tell you to have the new KH request your publisher card. Just say OK - and then never do it. Be sure to change your phone number and get an unlisted number. They will try for a few weeks and then just give up. Try to move far enough away that you won't bump into any of them very often. If you do, just assure them that you are doing fine, but have been very busy and haven't had time to deal with everything.

Remember that the old congregation really didn't give a damn while you were there. So after you've been gone a while, they will give even less of a damn.

JV

9

Shunning... the thing jdubs don't speak of

by freemindfade in

standing in the back now during the wt study.

looking ahead i find it comical paragraph 14.

"...you know how disfellowshipped ones are to be treated.

Juan Viejo2

Excellent article, Marvin Shilmer.

While they haven't stopped at my house in a very long time (they don't even drop off hand bills and Memorial invitations anymore and when I do see them in the neighborhood they avoid my house - but they are very rare in this neighborhood anymore) - back when they did I tried to have a little polite fun with them one time.

Two sisters knocked on the door. I gave them a polite greeting and let them say their prepared spiel. In those days they were still "placing" the 32-page versions of the magazines. I accepted them and then asked if they took "contributions" [JW buzz-word for donations]. "Of course," they said that they did and would be grateful for anything I would be willing to contribute.

So I rummaged through my pockets acting like I was looking for some paper money to give them. Even if I had one hundred single bills in my pocket, I made sure that I didn't find any. So I'd told them to hold on and then walked back to the kitchen. While waving at her with hand gestures and mouthing "Say 'No, but I'll look in my purse!' " I made her understand that she was supposed to take some time "looking for money." In the meantime, I grabbed my little Maltese and returned to the front door to make more small talk with them. Finally, after they had waited there for a few minutes, I asked, "Oh, by the way. Do you actually shun former members of your religion?"

Their first response was a quizzical look and an immediate denial. "No, we don't. We only avoid contact with those known to violate Jehovah's rules and laws like murder and stealing."

"Would you shun your own relatives if they were thieves and murderers?"

"Well, yes, of course. Those are serious crimes and anyone doing that kind of thing should be avoided."

"Would you shun someone who didn't commit any serious crimes and never hurt anyone, but disagreed with some of your beliefs? Would you shun your own relatives if they no longer believed but never committed any other sins?" They returned blank stares at me and then each other.

They hemmed and coughed and mumbled a few words to each other as they began moving backward. I asked the question again this way: "If someone was a JW and believed in Jehovah and Jesus and tried to do good, but simply did not believe that only 144,000 would go to heaven and that Armageddon won't happen in their lifetime - and disagreed with some, not all, just some of what the Governing Body teaches - would you shun them?"

By now they have backed down the steps and are distancing themselves from my porch. Finally, I hollered at them, "Hey! I used to be a Jehovah's Witness.... ... ... ... don't you want my donation?"

JV

11

Elders, disfellowshipping, & baseball umpires

by sir82 in

ok bear with me for second on this one..... i was just reading the other day about "pitchf/x", a type of technology that can accurately track whether a pitch in baseball is a ball or a strike.. a couple of analysts went over 6 years of baseball data.. it turns out that umpires are wrong about balls & strikes about 14% of the time.

what they call a "ball" is really a "strike" about 13% of the time, and what they call a "strike" is really a "ball" about 15% of the time.

here is the article.. that's at the major league level.. umpires have to work their way up to the major leagues, just as players do.

Juan Viejo2

Ever notice how many "repentant" wife beaters, cheaters, and pedophiles are forgiven and then repeat their offenses several more times? Jonathan Kendrick (Candace Conti case) was a repeat offender and yet he kept being reinstated again and again and last I heard he is still attending meetings.

You would think that the "holy spirit" would whisper in the judicial elders' ears and say, "kick that bastard out and never let him come back."

In reality it is almost like the Devil is whispering in their ears, "Hello, this is Sat**, oops, I mean it is Saturday and this is the Holy Spirit - yeah, right! I'm the Holy Spirit. I want you to give the pedophile another chance. He's really very dedicated [to me] and you should keep him. In fact, put him in charge of unaccompanied minors on field service days. Don't worry, you'll get another chance to really punish someone in a few days when a poor frightened teenage sister comes in and admits that her boyfriend kissed her on the lips and copped a feel. She deserves to serve eternity in the conference room and eventual painful destruction."

JV

33

Slow motion pioneers

by 1Averagejoe in

observing our local unemployed pioneers and how long they take to get to their first or next call, usually taking the longest route to get to one they know won't be there anyway.

along the way it's gossipy this and that.

pioneers?

Juan Viejo2

eyeuse2badub -

I was also a JW back in the 1950s and 60s. While going to jr. high and high school I would always pioneer during my summer break. If I remember correctly, in those days vacation pioneering was 70 hours. I would ride my bicycle to the territory and then begin to count my time and stop counting when I left the territory. I hit every house in that territory. That's what I did because I truly believed that Jehovah was watching me and that if I cheated on counting my time He would make me pay dearly.

I always had this vision that on Judgement Day, while cleaning up after Armageddon, I'd hear a booming voice from heaven that would call down at me and say,

"Sorry young brother, but you aren't going to make it through. You skipped a home on Prince Albert Drive that had someone who lived there that was ready to accept the Truth that very day. But the next day that person was killed in a car accident. Because she had done some very bad things before and never learned the truth, I have to leave her dead - all because of you." And then a lighting bolt would drop down from heaven and turn me into pot roast.

I'm serious. That's what I really thought. But then I would see elders ("servants" in those days) skip houses or sit in their car and chat while others were knocking doors. I'd hear gossipy sisters talk about only doing houses on the shady side of the street so they wouldn't get sunspots on their face or neck. I realized early on that I was the often the only one in service that day that truly believed that the holy spirit, Jesus, and Jehovah gave a shit about our group doing door-to-door the way we had been taught at Ministry School.

When I finally left when I was in my early 20s I never looked back even though my wife continued going for about 5 more years and my parents were "serving where the need was greater."

Now I look at JWs and their less than half-hearted preaching work. Elders come to my door and stuff an invitation into a flower pot on my porch rather than knock on the door. When I've caught them doing that, they just reach down, pull out the invitation and hand it to me - and then make a speedy exit. I see them on the street lazily walking along and skipping houses. I love watching them as they walk by and admire my wife's flowers or notice someone getting a new roof or taking a look at someone's new car, but then skipping those houses. When I was going door to door I knew to use all of those things as conversation starters - not an excuse to just take a lingering look and then go to the next house.

So yes - I think that modern door-to-door witnessing is really a waste of time. JW.org is a far more powerful tool to get the word out. But potential converts will look at JW.org a few times and go WTF and never return. At least that's my prayer to the white-haired, white-robed guy in the sky sitting in his ivory and gold throne surrounded by white-haired gold-crowned Jesus and his army of white-haired white-robed angels.

JV

10

Help finding video

by Pubsinger in

sorry everyone i keep asking for help.. there was a short video someone put up, it had letts saying 'we reject the claims of apostates that we cover up child abuse' and then it cuts to court footage of elders saying they were aware under oath, then cuts back to the same clip of letts saying the same thing.

then more courtroom footage and back to letts saying it again.

it was a great clip.

Juan Viejo2

This is the original link. I participated in making the video. Glad you liked it...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qbXeBXRFNcI

JV